Book Banter #8 Depth vs Fluff

It's been awhile since Suey and I had a good ol' Book Banter. We wanted to do one for my Adult Literature Month but couldn't come up with a topic. So bear with us as we make a bit of a stretch for our Book Banter to match up with my Adult Literature Month.

Most adult books have a bit more depth to them. Some symbolism, a moral or message. YA books can have this too but often our more shallow. (Just go with us on this.) So today Suey and I are going to banter about depth vs fluff. I'm all about a message or moral (not to be confused with agendas. I hate agendas) in a story. So if you're new to our blogs this is how this works. Suey will name 3 things in defense of fluff and I will rebuttal those reasons here. If you check out Suey's blog you can read my 3 reasons I love a message or moral to a story and see Suey's rebuttal. Make sense? OK. Here we go!

Suey
In Defense of Fluff
My part in today’s debate is to argue why fluff and books with no point (though I’m not sure there’s such a thing) or shall I say… books with no obvious message are just as valuable as books with a point and or message.
1 Escape. People read books for many reasons, and lots of people read books to learn, to understand the world, to figure something out and to gain some insight. But I maintain that one of the biggest reasons to read is to escape real life, to immerse oneself in another world, whether that be a fantasy one or a real one it doesn’t matter, just a world that has no real resemblance to our own. If this reason is valid, then I think that the book doesn’t necessary need a point to it… for the whole point is to read said book and escape.

Me

Yes, I've heard this before. I guess what really matters here is what your idea of escape is. I know most people would say escape is when you can just turn off your brain and not have to think or be present. But what if your life or job is a bit mundane and boring? Wouldn't an escape for you be reading something that wakes up your brain? Gets it thinking about new and exciting ideas? Gives it the depth and intricacies it craves? I know in my life I've been at a job or surrounded by people who wouldn't know and idea if it slapped them in the face. There is no intelligent discussion, no ideas, nothing! So for me, escaping into a book was reading something with intelligence oozing from the pages.

Suey

2 Brain Candy. Not only do we read sometimes to escape, but we read sometimes to give our brain a rest. If we have to be figuring out the point of the book, or what’s going on, or who’s who, or trying to understand a complicated plot, then our brain is working. Not to say that’s bad, but if you want to rest your brain from all that thinking then a book with no point, or a fluffy book, is just what you’ll be looking for!

Me

Yes, I suppose if you need a break, a fun fluffy book is just what you need. Or is it? Did you know our brains are more active while sleeping than watching TV? I'd much rather binge watch a TV show than read if my little brain needs a rest. Reading in and of itself takes a bit of effort so why not learn a little something, relate to a characters troubles and see a way out of your own, learn a new way of thinking while you're at it?

Suey

3 Happiness. I like to finish a book with a happy feeling (though yes some of my favorites are definitely not this way) and often the books that have more meaning are the sad, depressing ones. I mean, not always, but often. Does this make sense? And thus, I think those books that simply leave you feeling light and free and happy are worth it too, even if they didn’t leave you with some deep thought about the world.

Me

Nope! Sorry but I think what really makes me happy when reading a book is seeing a character learn something about themselves. Maybe they conquer something they never thought they could or they finally learn to stand up for themselves. Maybe they win against all odds. That's what makes me happy. Harry Potter is a great example of this. While there a tons of tiny lessons scattered through each book the great overarching lesson, in my opinion, is good vs evil. While some books left us a heart broken (Half Blood Prince)  and it seemed like evil was conquering, you just new good would win in the end. Didn't it make you happy that it did? That Harry learned and grew and became the boy that (with a little help) could conquer such great evil?  

Don't forget to go to Suey's blog and check out my 3 reasons I need a message or moral to a story! 

Book Banter #7 Plot v Character

We're back! Did you miss us?! Sure you did. It's time for more Book Banter. This week Suey and I will be discussing plot vs character. You know what we mean. Are you a plot or character reader? Well, I'm a plot girl and Suey likes characters. Obviously we like both characters AND plot but if we had to choose...well here you go!

Suey
I remember at one point if someone were to ask me if I was a plot person or a character person, I’d fret and wring my hands and hum and ha and stress about the answer. That was years ago and since then I’ve learned that I lean much more toward the character side of things over the plot side of things. (Not say one is more important than the other… because as we all know, a story needs both.)

I’ve noticed that when others complain “but nothing is happening!” I’m like… “really? But stuff IS happening… the characters are talking, right?” So I guess my first reason is so what if nothing is happening as long as the characters are relating… meaning… they are bantering, talking, discussing, interacting, figuring stuff out, thinking, worrying, pondering. All those things ARE something. Which means… something IS happening! Was that a clear reason? Let me restate: Characters interacting is something happening!

Me

Of course something is happening but it's like a day at the DMV. Sure, there's crazy people to see but it's not like you'd want to hang out there every day. See what I mean? There needs to be something going on. 

Suey 

Characters make me happy. Sometimes plot goes over my head. Sometimes I miss the details and the ins and outs and the complicated nature of what’s going down… but I GET the characters! They fascinate me. They seem like real people. They are awesome, cool, vulnerable, crazy, swoony, and so many other things. They are the heart of the story and the part of the story that make me interested, much more so than the plot ever does.

Me

Ah, but with out the brain the heart is just a lumpy red mass of muscle sitting there...doing....nothing. It even stops beating with out it's better parts! AKA plot. 

Suey

The questions that often arise in plot… where did that dead body come from and who killed it? Or who’s going to win the war and how? Or why is he going on this journey and will he get there? Etc etc. If those questions start being discussed in too much detail I get bored and start skimming to see if I can find where it “gets back to the story” which for me is when the people show up again!

Me

Ha! All I have to say to this is when I'm reading and characters just start talking and carrying on, I flip ahead to see when things start happening again! 

Suey's Last Word
Of course, I enjoy a fast paced, moving, crazy good plot! Of course I do! BUT… the people are where it’s at! 

My Last Word

If the plot's racing you through the pages...who cares about some whiny character?

Hmmm, I think all we really proved today was that books need both plot AND great characters. Agreed? Don't forget to check out my more detailed feelings on plot on Suey's blog! 

Book Banter #6 THGs

This week for Book Banter, Suey and I will be discussing the ending of The Hunger Games. With the final installment of the movies being released recently it's been on people's minds again. I actually liked the ending of the series. I know, I'm weird. Anyway,  I'll rebuttal Suey's dislikes here and don't forget to check out why I liked this crazy sad ending on Suey's blog.

Suey KILL THEM ALL!
So, they say make your characters suffer. But really? THIS MUCH? Does it HAVE to be that bad? I think a lot of people are wondering if Prim really has to die (not just me)… because I’ve seen much about this lately floating around in the cyberspace. And yes, maybe she did. Maybe. I don’t know. But did Finnick? Did he really? And the others on the team? The mute guy? (I forget all their names now.) Really? This book, this series really, is all DIE DIE DIE. That can get to a nice innocent reader after a while!

Me

I actually agree with you about Finnick! I loved him and the fact that he dies, and the way he dies, just broke my heart. Still, this series is a tragedy. Not a love story, not an adventure or a mystery. It's a tragedy. This book is about a revolution, an uprising. People are going to die. Lots of people. It's not fair. It hurts. But it's the sad truth of war. I for one am glad Collins didn't sugarcoat anything. She was being honest about war and the reality of the pain it causes.

Suey DEPRESSION
I don’t know exactly why, but I felt so sad and depressed after reading this book. (DIE DIE DIE perhaps?) I had to look up my review of the book (sheesh, five years ago!) and this is what I said then “This book seriously left me feeling blah, sad, a little underwhelmed, confused. Which I guess is what bugs me about the ending.”I really hate it when an ending leaves you with this feeling. Even though I’m not at all scared of tragic sad endings, still. And so, yeah, I was a little worried about the movie and sure enough, it sent me into a bad mood for a good 24 hour period. I literally couldn’t concentrate on a thing the next day. Probably it was more than just the movie, but I blamed the movie! :) Maybe it’s just that we were (are) all so invested in these characters and it was over. Maybe it didn't end very satisfying, even though the bad guy was eliminated. Maybe it’s just the nature of the story, the “dystopia” of it all that finally got to me. Maybe it was Peeta being so broken and not really fixed by the time everything ends. BUT probably it was mostly (see next reason)....

Me 

I like to use the word: reflective. Depression should get you thinking about why you're so sad. And when you figure that out you can hopefully learn something from your depression. I really hope it never comes to something like this in our world but, sadly, it might. Maybe it's a bit ridiculous to try to learn how to deal in a situation as horrible as the one in THGs from books and movies but where else can we learn it? OK, getting a bit distracted. I just know that tragedies are supposed to make us think and I hope this one gets us thinking. I know it did for me. 

Suey GALE
The biggest problem I have with the ending is how Gale is treated. So, okay fine, she picks Peeta. I’m good with that. I like Peeta. I like him a lot. He’s good for Katniss. They need each other. Yes, fine, blah blah blah. But, BUT… Gale. He does NOT deserve to be brushed off and thrown out like Katniss does to him. It KILLS me! It breaks my heart! It makes me want to curl up and cry. he has been there for her no matter what, even if she freaking loves another guy, he’s still there for her. Not once does he moan or stomp off or throw a fit. He only says, “you only kiss me when I’m hurting” or “it’s like kissing someone who’s drunk” so you know he feels bad and his heart is breaking too. But he is STILL there! And he’s been there from the beginning… way way before the events of the book even start. He’s is steady and strong and loyal. And so what if he decides to fight… fight the rebellion that KATNISS started! And she hates him for it? And all he gets is a “goodbye Gale” after ALL THAT? It kills me.

Me

Technically, Katniss didn't start the rebellion. She was defiant and rebellious and that gave other people courage but she didn't declare war on the capitol, not really. Not with out guidance from District 13. I liked Gale too and it broke my heart that he got the short end of the stick. But everyone, no matter what circumstances are thrust upon them, can make their own decisions. Gale chose his path. Yes, he didn't have much choice but he had some and he chose to fight. That's why I loved him. Why he bothered me was because he blamed Katniss for his misery. That's not fair! No one is responsible for anyone else's happiness. We are responsible for our own happiness. It is tragic. If things hadn't happened they way they had Katniss and Gale most definitely would have ended up together. But....circumstances. It sucks!  

So what about you? Did you like or hate the ending to this series? And if you did hate it have I convinced you not to hate it quite so badly? Don't forget to check out Suey's blog to see why I liked the ending. 

Book Banter #5 Tom Hiddelston

Time for another Book Banter! Are you bored yet? No? Of course you're not. You love this stuff. Alright. This weeks topic is Tom Hiddleston. Yeah, OK, he's not book related but it's still a fun topic for Suey and I. She adores him. His looks, his personality etc. I, however, just don't get it. I mean, I get his personality is great but his looks...not so much. So here we go.

Suey
Smile: While I agree that he might not have the typical look of a heart throb, (though it can be argued that his untypical look is quite heart throbby enough) you can’t deny that he has one of the best smiles in existence. And I, for one, think that smile supersedes anything he might lack otherwise. (Though I could still argue that his eyes, his dance moves, and his general classic tailored polished look has a lot going for him too!) But his smile! It’s so contagious. It’s so brilliant and beautiful and bright. Seeing that for the first time in the theater watching Thor, I pretty much totally forgot Thor (who DOES have every single “normal” heart throb attribute going on in his favor) because of that Loki/Tom smile.

Me

Why, yes...I suppose he does have a nice smile...once he opens those thin pursed lips of his to reveal it. (check out more of my thoughts on Suey's blog) 

Suey
Charm: Of course we none of us know what Tom Hiddleston is like in real life. All the celebrities put on a face for us no matter who they are or what they’re doing. But I feel that Tom must, he MUST truly have the charm that he exudes for us all. That charm, I think even more than the smile, is what has made so many of us fall for him. He is charming as himself, he’s charming as Loki, he’s charming as whoever he is in that haunted house movie (even though I haven’t seen it I’m pretty sure he’s charming, in creepy way, am I right?). It doesn’t matter the role he’s playing, or the face he’s presenting, he can’t help but be charming. The style he sports, the gentlemanly manners he practices, the ideas he professes to…. all charming and perfect.

Me

Uh, can't really argue against his charm, though, no, he's not charming in Crimson Peak. He was creepily disgusting. Yuck! Plus, I think he's type cast into a well mannered gentleman and us girls fall all over ourselves for it but lets not forget he's just acting that way. He's not actually royalty from another plant or a gentleman from the distant past. He's probably not as charming as we think. He can probably burp the alphabet with the best of them.


Suey
Acting/Singing: So I’ve only seen him in a couple of movies and I really haven’t seen him sing yet except random YouTube clips. But what I HAVE seen makes me tend to declare that he is one amazing actor. And I can’t wait to see him in more stuff, especially the upcoming singing one! I find it interesting when someone like him plays a role for someone like Loki and we all fall in love with Loki, the villain, and a pretty awful sad sorry mean old villain too, then that says something for the way that villain is acted. Know what I mean? He’s amazing. AMAZING! I don’t know how else to say it. Just. . .amazing.

Me

Tom sings? Hmmm, who knew? Not me. I'll have to check it out. I actually have only seen him in a few movies but personally, I'm not blown away by his acting. I think he acts the same in all his movies. Not to say he's not a good actor just not versatile. But that's just me. 

So, there you have it. If you want to know what I really can't stand about Tom, you'll have to check out my thoughts on Suey's blog. There's pictures! 

Also, it's Suey's birthday today! Wish her a happy birthday while you're there! 

Book Banter #4 High School Love

It's time for another Book Banter! Aren't you excited?! Today's Topic that Suey and I shall be discussing is High School Love: Is it possible? If you read as much YA as I do, you know what I'm talking about. Girl meets boy. Boy suddenly is the love of her life and she could't live with out him if she tried, she just couldn't and if you tell her that she has to, she'll run away with him, they'll elope. She knew she loved him from the moment she saw him and parents and family and friends be dammed, she'll be with him forever and ever! Ahem, I guess you can tell what side I'm taking today. ;)

Suey: I lived it.
Yes, I’m one of those people. I started dating my husband in January of our senior high school in year. Probably three months later (I can’t really remember the exact moment!) I was pretty sure he would be in my life forever. We had ups and downs of course. And we still waited a long time before we got married (three years) but it all began in high school and it was real and true and all that! I always like to say that I enjoyed being 17 because when I was 18 suddenly things were serious and real. Not to say that was a bad thing, but it definitely felt like something changed that year. So having lived it, I can say for certain that it CAN happen in high school.

Me
Ah, but wouldn't you say you love your husband much more now then what you thought you did back then? I think love comes in levels. When you first meet someone you like them and then comes infatuation. I love infatuation. It's the only reason sane people would ever get married! No, I tease but it does help. Marriage with all it's ups and downs and boring times and stressful times is what brings people past infatuation and into a deeper level of love.

Suey: I’ve seen it. 
The example that always stands out to me is my grandma’s sister, my great aunt, someone who I knew (know actually, as she is still alive) fairly well. She got married at age 15. And not during a time when this was normal. (I think I remember my grandma saying that she, her older sister, was pretty freaked out by this!) I’m not sure the year they got married but I’d guess it to be late 50’s. So 15 even at that time, was pretty shocking. (And no they were not pregnant… at least I don’t think they were!) And anyway, they had a long and happy (I assume) marriage which only ended when my uncle died a year or so ago. I’ve always been impressed with her story and I’m sure there are many more examples like hers out there.

Me
Wow! 15? Crazy. See, this example is great but it does go against the norm. Getting married at 15 and not being pregnant is nearly unheard of nowadays. If a teenager was, for what ever reason, to get out of the house and get married and start all the responsibilities of adulthood with her husband then, yes, I'd imagine love would become a real thing for her while she was still a teenager. But maybe not so strong a love as would come in adulthood. Teenagers are still babies themselves. They are still growing up and need to figure out who they are and what life is all about before they are really capable of love. And that goes for adults too. Some adults who are still incredibly immature, probably aren't capable of love either.

Suey: Anything is possible! 
I can’t really think of another reason, except for the the fact that anything can happen really. And teenagers can most certainly find their soul mates at a young age. I do agree that they shouldn’t make major life decisions (like my aunt did!) when they are so freaking young, but by 18 or 19 (even though that is still so freaking young!) they can pretty much know what their gut and hearts are telling them. (I’ve had sisters and sisters in law get married this young and all is well… so far!) I think that high school love stories in the YA books we read are so much fun because it does touch that romantic place in all of us and gives us the satisfaction of a great storybook happily ever after.

Me
Now here we could get into a discussion about maturity levels. Some people are incredibly mature. They have old souls. So, yes, maybe they could fall in love at a younger age but I still stand by my convictions. Teenagers are too young to fully  know what they want out of life let alone fall in love. I'm perfectly fine with romance in YA books. I'm a strong believer in infatuation. I just don't believe in one true loves in YA books. *cough* *cough* Twilgiht *cough* *cough*.

So where do you stand? Is True Love possible in your teen years? Or, like me, do you believe it's impossible and what teenagers think is love, is simply infatuation?

Don't forget to check out Suey's post for my thoughts and her rebuttal.

Book Banter #3 The DUFF

It's time for another Book Banter! This week's topic, The DUFF by Kody Keplinger and guess what? For a change, I will actually be taking the positive on this one! Let's Get started.

Suey
1. Terrible Characters. I didn’t like anyone in this book. And I’m usually okay to find the good in even a questionable character. I’m often rooting for the villain, or liking the mean guy, or wanting good things to happen to the underdog, etc. But everyone in this book was just dumb and stupid. They had no brains, like, at all. I couldn’t root for anyone and when that happens, it makes me sad and the book becomes not fun at all.

Me

I don't think the characters in this one were great role models for teens or anything but they were characters I could sympathize with. I felt for Bianca. Too many teens have absent or fighting parents on the brink of divorce and add on a alcoholic father and I get it. I can see why Bianca did what she did. Besides her "bad" decision, Bianca is a good student. She's smart. She's succeeding at school and has plans for college. By the end of the books she owns up to her mistakes, takes responsibility and learns to be okay with herself.

Suey
2. Sex without romance.Call me old fashioned, but I find sex without love and romance to be no fun. Wrong for sure. Boring even. No chemistry. No feeling. No intense emotions. Mix in the fact that these are teenages and, yeah. Just, no. I kept hoping throughout the whole book that maybe, just maybe, they’d find some romance to throw into the mix. But nope. It never happened. Well, maybe at the very bitter end. And even then, I’m not sure they ever decided for sure if they really liked each other. Or if they were just jealous of anyone else who got to, you know, “be” with that person. Which was the reason I kept reading just to see if it would appear, the romance angle. I was disappointed and let down.

Me

Oh, man! What?! No! There was definite chemistry with these two. Romance comes in all shapes and sizes. This wasn't love at first sight or a slow burning love like we all might be used to but this was romance all the same. While I agree this should be a  NA book not YA, I still am okay with the sex. Mostly because the writing of it isn't too explicit. This isn't a erotica by any stretch of the imagination. And, honestly I could go into way too much personal info on my feelings about sex, but I won't scar anyone for life. I get that it started as a stress release for Bianca. Maybe a stupid decision and, yes, she was very lucky that the relationship turned out okay, but it's not like their relationship didn't progress beyond just sex. It did.

Suey
3.No point. Most books do try to make one. Sometimes it’s pretty vague. Sometimes it’s in your face. But usually you come of off a read with some sort of satisfying feeling, some sort of redeeming thought, some sort of accomplishment. This one had nothing for me. Nothing. Except maybe, “hey kids, perhaps if you feel bad you should talk it out with someone and not have nonstop sex with a guy you can’t stand.” Maybe that was it.

Me

What?! There was a point. The book is called, The DUFF. Designated Ugly Fat Friend. How many teens feel like a loser, unpopular, The DUFF? The whole message to this book was that we all feel like shit about ourselves at times no matter how perfect or put together our lives feel. Because of those feelings we stupidly lash out at others. But nobody is perfect and we can embrace ourselves and love ourselves in spite of everything and stop worrying about what others think. We're all the popular kids and the DUFFS wrapped into one awesome person!   

Have you read this book? How did you feel about it? Don't forget to check out Suey's post today and see what I loved and her rebuttal! 

Book Banter #2 John Green

It's time for another Book Banter with my friend Suey! This week's topic: John Green. In typical Jenny fashion I shall be taking the against side. Suey has sent me three things she loved about John Green and I will rebuttal them here. Likewise, I have sent her three things I dislike about John Green and she will be rebuttal-ing them on her blog. Check it out!  Here we go!



1 I love that he’s smart and funny and witty. I love that he says things that make me think. I love that he says things that make me feel. I love the way he says things and the words he uses. I think he’s a great writer full of real emotion. 

Truthfully, I can't complain about his actual writing. It's OK. It's the characters he writes that bother me. Are they characters you can love and relate to? Do they make you feel? Sure. If you want to love John Green. See, I have this theory that John secretly sees a therapist and that said therapist has assigned him to write stories about himself as a way to discover his inner self...either that or he's just a little narcissistic.

2 I love that he’s relatable. He’s normal. He’s gets people. He’s geeky like we all are. He owns up to it. He embraces it. He makes other geeky nerdy kids feel proud of that. He makes people feel like they can do anything. Because if he, a nerdy guy, can do it, we can all do it. 

Well, I'm a nerd but I certainly don't relate to John. Sure, he's a nerdy little inspiration to people but I can name about a bazillion different author's that write about relatable, flawed, unpopular people that are an inspiration as well. I guess what I'm saying is, John is not unique. He's a nerd in a million that is showing the world that nerds can be cool too. Other's just do it without talking so fast in You Tube videos that really aren't THAT funny. 

3 He uses his fame to teach and inspire other people. I mean, he’s probably pretty busy, and yet, he makes videos about history and literature and gets people excited about them. (His brother Hank does the science-y videos.) I love that he has so many projects all for bettering others. He has inspired so many people to go out and do their own projects and start their own things and be their own kind of creative. It’s just cool. And I love it.

Well, I'm glad he's such a great role model for kids...in person. I really haven't watched very many of his You Tube videos. His characters, however, are probably not the greatest role models for kids. Yes, they are real and gritty and honest. I love that! But I'm an adult not a teen. I would imagine parent's probably wouldn't be comfortable letting their kids read his books. The women are terrible, self loathing bad girls and there's smoking and swearing and scenes alluding to sex.  So these kids love John Green and his Videos and are all inspired...and then they read his books. At this point they probably think he can do no wrong and are perfectly OK reading about these things...thinking it's normal. 

Book Banter #1 Jane Eyre

Welcome! My friend Suey from It's All About Book and I have decided to start a new blog feature. See, we have been reading buddies for a long time and while we share the same opinion on how awesome Markus Zusak is and swoon over many of the same TV shows, we also disagree on lots of books and authors. So we finally decided to start a feature where we can share the many debates we've had. Hope you enjoy!

Today's Argument discussion. Jane Eyre. Here's how this works. Suey and I have each sent each other three things we loved/hated about the book and now have the chance to rebuttal each other...I shall be taking the "against" side because as many of you know, I'm really, really not a fan of this book! So without further ado...

Suey1. The strength of Jane's character. I love how resilient this character is. That stuff she endures at the beginning of the book with the abuse at school and the dying of her best friend, and the crappy treatment by her aunt, and then she gets sent of to a be the governess for what appears to be a scary grouchy old guy. And she comes through it all! She grows up and finds herself. She’s strong. One of my favorite strongest heroines in all of literature.

Me Strong? Well, we're definitely going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Jane is anything but strong. She's got battered woman syndrome! The girl has been mistreated her whole life and has now accustomed herself to being mistreated; especially by men. Case in point...she calls Rochester "my master". For a brief moment, despite her issues, she manages to get away from one abusive situation into another and then goes back to the old abusive relationship because, well, hey, I guess it was a better option than being stuck with St John. But I guess the story has a happy ending because Jane is happy in her misery. She chooses the life of abuse and servitude willingly. Ugh! I wash my hands of her!

Suey 2. The love story. I remember being bugged at first by the age difference, but I got over it. I don’t think Mr. Rochester is as old as we think, and then when Jane does so much growing up, it doesn’t seem that weird. But what I do love about the story, is that we have a guy who has retreated behind a facade of grouchiness and grumpiness, a guy who appears to not care about anything or anyone, a guy who is bitter about the world. And then she comes along and starts peeling all that off. He drops all the layers he's built up around himself and allows himself to live again. I love that. I love that he’s surprised by it too, that he didn’t set out to have this happen, he didn’t mean for it to, but that Jane becomes irresistible to him, even though she is plain and quiet and boring. I love that this ornery man of the world is fascinated by a shy quiet girl, and that the shy girl has the power to change and capture an ornery man of the world.

Me Yes, Rochester goes from the picked on younger brother to the husband of a mad woman to a sleazeball who sleeps with other woman till he tires of them. He's a grouchy old man because he's spent his life selfishly serving himself. When he decides he "loves" Jane he's just, once again, being selfish. He wants to own and consume her. Jane fancies her self in love because she's attracted to this man who treats her like crap. Every man in her life has treated her horribly but, hey, they weren't as cute and crotchety as old Rochester so she settles for him. There are all sorts of loves in the world but this one is unhealthy and repulsive!

Suey 3. Emotion and angst! You know I’m drawn to this sort of thing in books and stories. All the drama! All the feelings! All the brooding! The Mr. Rochester in my head is deliciously complicated. He’s gruff, he’s mean, he’s scary. And then, he’s compassionate, he’s sincere and he’s loyal. Okay, so he DID hide a wife in the attic and neglected to tell Jane. But I think this shows how much he wants to take care of this person… and not send her to an asylum like most people would do in this case. He could just turn Jane into a mistress, but he wants to make it right and marry her. This puts him in a very bad place and one he has no idea how to solve. He chooses poorly. He messes up. But this makes him so human! Bottom line: Mr. Rochester is the very definition of a brooding gothic tortured soul, which for some reason, I totally can’t resist when comes to crushing on fiction book boys.

Me Oh, no, no, no, NO! I'm sorry but Rochester is not compassionate, sincere or loyal. He didn't lock his wife away in the attic because he was compassionate. He did it to hide her. If he put her in an asylum he would have had to still admit to the world he was married to her. He full on admits to Jane that he convinced himself he wasn't married and a free man. He locks his wife away and lies to everyone else and himself. He spends years searching for a woman who can challenge him intellectually probably because he finally wants someone to call him out on his bullcrap! Wow! Maybe this book is deeper than I thought. Sigh! Sadly Jane sort of calls him out of his crap but just comes running back to him forgiving him of something he never apologizes for. Well, Rochester, you failed again. You only would have succeeded if Jane DIDN'T come back. I guess you're just too manipulative for your own good.  Yes, there's a lot of angst in this book but it's not coming from the characters. It's coming from the ever growing frustration of the reader!


via GIPHY



Now you can go check out my 3 hates...

1. Rochester. The biggest reason I hate Jane Eyre is and always will be Mr Edward "pathological liar" Rochester. How can anyone actually like this guy?! He decided to marry a girl based soley on the fact that she was beautiful. Didn't bother to get to know her or anything, and then when he discovers she's nuts what does he do? He throws her in the attic and completely ignores her. And what really gets me about this is that he then begins to loathe her! Like it's her fault she's crazy? Good Grief! His only excuse to this is, "you don't know what I went through". He goes off after this and looks for another woman and has torrid affairs with two or three woman that he then finds tedious and pays off to shut up. Then simple, plain Jane comes into the picture and let's look over the fact that he lies to her about his crazy wife locked in the attic which is reason enough to hate him but it's the way he approaches the whole thing. He proceeds to FORCE Jane to be in his presence and "talk with him" which is really just him talking AT her and telling her how naive and innocent she is. "Poor stupid, Jane. Let me take you under my wing and teach you about life". And let's not forget he never even has the balls to tell Jane about his wife she finds out on her wedding day at the alter! When she decides to leave him he threatens her...twice! The man is a pompous, abusive, drama king! After all is said and done and he's left in complete abject humiliation Jane comes back. Does he apologize? Did he apologize to her before she ran away? NO!!! He doesn't! Argh!!!


2. Jane. Poor, stupid pathetic Jane. She never learns to just love herself. Oh, she says she does but how can you really love yourself if you walk right back into an abusive relationship? I guess her whole life has been a lesson in bowing down and obeying men and so she does. She calls Rochester master, people! To be honest, I'm kinda shocked she didn't marry St John at the end. She always does what any man tells her to so why not continue the tradition? Oh well, I guess she just turned down one jerk for another. The whole book would have been better if, after she left Rochester she met another wonderful man who truly loved and respected her and married him. Then went back to look at poor stupid Rochester and pitied him enough to spare a kind though then got her bustle out of there!


3.The writing. I really despise that the author consistently has Jane call us, dear reader. Anytime you start trying to form your own opinion the author comes in with the voice of Jane and tells you you're are stupid. You're not allowed to have your own opinion. You must have the opinion of these stupid characters that she has. Well, nice try Charlotte! it didn't work. I've formed my opinion and your characters suck! Your book sucks and if you were still alive I'd recommend you see a therapist for your deep seeded man issues!

And Suey's rebuttal on her blog.

Have you read Jane Eyre? Who's side are you on? Feel free to share in the comments!